Nick Johnston [The Remarkably Human Interview]
UPDATE: TMMP has been reborn! This video has the full story:
If you think instrumental guitar is passé and boring and every lick, riff, and melody that can be written has already been written, meet Nick Johnston. Having previously collaborated with the likes of the Aristocrats and Paul Gilbert, Nick Johnston has proven himself worthy of top-class company, and is now set up to drop new album Remarkably Human at the end of September.
Having afforded Remarkably Human a full 100% score in a review readable by clicking here, there was one burning question I had to ask in order to kick off this interview…
Has anyone confused you with Nick Johnson, the world’s first Pokémon Master?
[Laughs] No! In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone mention him besides you!
I have a few friends who play Pokémon Go, but I’m 29, so I grew up playing the original Pokémon when it came out. But that’s kind of where it ends for me – I never really got into the Go world. So it doesn’t come up in conversation very much.
I looked into it, and I couldn’t find much on Nick Johnson, but so far no, there’s been no confusion. And I guess it’s just a fine line between the t and no t, isn’t it?
Yeah, that’s exactly it!
So maybe that will happen soon enough [laughs]! But nothing so far. That’s a good question!
You’ve got a new album, Remarkably Human, coming out next month. So aside from excitement, which is what everyone says, what thoughts and feelings are going through your mind right now?
[Sighs] Oh man, that’s the question! I mean, this is the fourth album I’ve done and every time I’ve noticed there’s this weird kind of life cycle to the album before it even comes out.
So there’s the whole thing where you feel like you’ve got everything together, and you’re like “Yes, this is the collection of songs that will go on to become this album,” and you’re feeling pretty confident about that. And you hear the end result in your mind and you’re like “…this is exactly what I’m trying to do here”.
So that goes by, and you go on to record the record and you’ve finished the album in the studio and you’re kinda like “Alright, yeah, this is cool, you know,” and it definitely never is. It never is what you hear in your head; it’s impossible, it’s just an unrealistic expectation. But you’re stoked on it, and ideally your performance, your production, your tone, and just everything in general about it, maybe was elevated to the next level.
So you feel good about that.
However, then, for me, there’s this long period where either I’m trying to get the funding together for the rest of the album, for example mixing, mastering, or if I’m having other musicians play on the record. Which is usually what I do just because of my circumstances. So then I start spending too much time with the material, and I start doubting it, like [sighs] “…this isn’t good enough, this is garbage, what the hell was I thinking,” and so on and so forth.
Basically, you doubt everything. You completely doubt everything and you almost start to sort of poison the material a little bit. And then you get everything finished – the mixing, the mastering – and you’re like “Yes! This is exactly what I heard in my head at the beginning!”
And then…I’ve been sitting with the final masters [for Remarkably Human] for at least a month now, and you start to stick too long with the material and you start to hate it again! “This is no good, what have I done, I’ve spent so much time and energy on this,” it’s constant – and I think that’s probably true of anyone who’s working with art at any level, be it visual, a movie, a book.
I’m sure it comes in waves of love and hate, and right now I’m somewhere in between that. But I think I’ve just spent too much time with it, you know? It needs to come out and finish its life cycle and turn into something other people can listen to and think about.
It’s funny – when I’m writing music, or considering doing a record, there’s never a thought of “…this is what I think people wanna hear,” or “…this is what I think people need to view me as,” it’s more like “…this is what I’m hearing in my head, and this is what’s naturally coming out”. So that’s why there’s extra doubt, because it’s like “…this is what I thought was good, but I have no idea what everyone else is gonna think”.
So as you can tell, it’s a bit of a complicated subject for me, and I’m still trying to figure it out. And now that I’m so close to the release of Remarkably Human, like I’m going to be putting up the first song at the end of the month…I’m a bit of a wreck, I’ve gotta be honest with you!
So that’s where I am right now with it; it’s a constant struggle! [Laughs]
It’s like a tug of war, almost.
It is, it really is. And it’s also a good sign though, I guess, because it means I care about it. If I was just like “…whatever, I just want to get it out and move on,” that would maybe be a bad sign.
Although I will say I’ve had this material written and demoed in its entirety since last August – so obviously the music’s been completely done for over a year. Which means I’ve had time to write new stuff; I’ve got about half another album in the bag already. So I do at the same time wanna progress and move forward and explore new territory.
But! Remarkably Human is kind of the bridge between Atomic Mind and the next version of my approach to music, I think.
Ahh, interesting! So moving back a bit, what’s your earliest musical memory?
Wow! Man, you’re good at this. Earliest musical memory…okay, there’s a couple of really specific ones.
I remember singing Itsy Bitsy Spider with my mom when I was like…maybe under a year old [laughs]!
And I think the first musical memory that impacted me, I was probably two or three years old. My dad used to play a lot of ‘70s rock when he was organising or doing some cleaning around the house. He had this great turntable and speakers, and a big record collection – so a lot of Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, and Black Sabbath, and a lot of Johnny Cash and stuff like that.
So it was more “Oh, my dad thinks this stuff is cool, so there must be something going on here,” but being so young I didn’t take it for more than…there was noise in the house! But I can certainly remember specific occasions when he played music.
As I got older, the biggest connection between listening to music and wanting to play it was a neighbour moving in. He was a bit older than me and played guitar; I thought that was just the coolest thing. And I wanted in [laughs]!
So what made you decide to pursue the instrumental guitar route versus the more traditional and common band-based approach?
Good question – it’s something I get asked quite often, and there’s certainly no specific reason other than if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself. It was a matter of circumstance and situation and where I lived, and I guess it’s a geographical thing. Other than that, I lived in a very small town up until I was in my mid-twenties – my formative years as a guitar player.
So I didn’t have many people around. I was a bit of an awkward kid sometimes, and didn’t like the idea of spending a lot of time with a huge group of people deciding on what the lyrics should be on this particular song…it was more that I wanted to play guitar and make music at any time, whether it’s two o’clock in the morning or six o’clock in the morning. So it just kind of made sense that here’s this guitar, I can’t really sing, I don’t have any band members living nearby…why don’t I just try to do it all with the guitar?
Now of course the first couple of hundred pieces of music I wrote, they were all garbage of course. You know, you’re cutting your teeth. The music ended up sounding more like what you would have heard on a mid ‘80s Shrapnel kind of album, you know?
Sure, like Tony McAlpine and that sort of thing…
Yeah – but not as good! There was no melody; it was all basically just…I was 18, and I wanted to just get all my technical stuff out of my fingers and onto a recording. I still have some of those demos; they’re hilarious!
When I was about 20, a friend of mine who was a bit older than me, a professional musician, said “I want you to write a song, tonight, with no guitar solo”. And I accomplished this task he’d given me, and that set me on the right path of focussing on melody and harmony rather than “…here’s how many notes per string I can play”. Of course, there’s nothing wrong with that – but it was a huge revelation for me.
As I got better at that, I realised “I can do this instrumental thing, I think, and I’m noticing a shift in the way I play,” and it felt good to accomplish something with the guitar, being able to write and record a complete piece of music. A lot of my music though, I think, could be rearranged for a vocalist. It’s just that the stars haven’t aligned in that sense.
I don’t think I’m there yet. Quite frankly, there would be no legitimacy and no conviction in playing with a vocalist right now. I just don’t have the context yet. I don’t think I’m musically mature enough. And that’s the honest truth [laughs]!
Okay – so if we were to expand that a little bit into dream vocalist territory, what sort of singers and vocalists could you imagine yourself working with in the future?
Good question too! I’ve never really thought about that. I don’t know…I’m not a huge fan of the super aggressive kind of vocal. That would really depend on whatever type of music I would end up writing. I certainly wouldn’t go into it thinking “I’m going to write music in this style, and I’ve got to find a vocalist that can do that,” it would kind of be like “…this is the kind of music I’m writing, and let’s try a few things and see what works”. It might be a female vocalist, might be a male vocalist; it could be a tenor, or a soprano…it doesn’t really have direction until the music’s in place. And that’s actually the most exciting thing, because you don’t know until you can go down that path. But that’s definitely something for the future, for my training I would need to explore as a musician, for sure.
That’s kind of a vague answer I guess! [Laughs]
It makes sense; the unpredictability is a big part of it.
Yeah. As a quick aside, related to what we’ve discussed so far, I’m currently working on a book about the music industry, and Dan Davies – who works with Rob Chapman and runs Musicisum – is editing it.
Oh yeah! I know Dan.
So I’m going through a lot of the same sort of things. The unpredictability aspect is a big part of the creative process, but it also means you can’t really see too far into the future and know exactly what you’re going to do and explain it!
So I definitely get where you’re coming from with that.
Cool! I just noticed – you’re wearing a Toska hoodie! Are you friends with all those guys?
Yeah – they used to be based near me, so I’ve known them a while now. That’s actually how I heard about your music; Dan told me about Atomic Mind.
So anyway, how did you hook up with Gavin Harrison and Bryan Beller for Remarkably Human?
I’ll give you the background of the whole kind of commissioned approach I took to the rest of the band on this album.
Coming back to the whole proximity thing, there was a certain sound I wanted, so I had to find someone to capture that. And I originally worked with a drummer named Travis Orbin on the first two albums I did; he did a great job, and I had a great experience with him. And then for the third album, I felt kind of confident in what I was doing, so…sorry, let me go back a bit!
For the second album, I had reached out to Paul Gilbert about playing on the record, and he was great, really into the songs and had no problem playing on it. Then I asked Guthrie Govan – and to my surprise, he was also very interested in playing on the album! So it is what it is, and the more names you have attached to it, you can use contacts to branch out and find other people who might be interested in playing.
Because it was Guthrie, it was easier to ask the rest of the Aristocrats to play on the record, right?
So he would have vouched and said yeah, it’s kinda cool…so I reached out to Marco Minnemann and sent him a few demos for Atomic Mind, right when In A Locked Room On The Moon came out. He was really into it; I think I sent him Ghost Of The Robot Graveyard and Atomic Mind and Last Deals Of Dead Men – the strongest trio on that record, basically.
And then Bryan – same thing! I said, you know, “…a couple of your bandmates are playing on this record, would you be interested?” and he was like “Yeah, sure!”
And those guys are super busy, so the trick with commissioned musicians or I guess just hired musicians is timing and scheduling – especially when they’re that busy. For example, Marco’s playing with Steven Wilson, and the Aristocrats, and he’s doing a bunch of other session work – he basically had…that was November 2013…he had about a week in between tours to record Atomic Mind.
He did it in a day, by the way!
The guy’s prolific. It’s crazy.
He did a great job. My point with that was, In A Locked Room On The Moon had just come out in September, I think, the same year. So two months before. So I had to have all my demo stuff for the next album done and sent over to the drummer for final drum tracking two months after In A Locked Room On The Moon came out.
So it was a very stressful time, very hectic. And the same thing with bass; the bass came a little later, and I think Bryan was playing with Satriani by that point, so the same tours. So I kind of got used to this workflow and this work ethic where you have to just get shit done and just finish it and move on. Which is good and bad, of course.
I think it was last winter I got in touch with Gavin. Just emailed him, had a contact from a friend of mine who hooked me up with his email, and I just asked him like, “…here’s my previous record, do you want to play on the new one?”
I sent him a few tracks, and he was really cool about it. He was very serious and basically said “Just so you know, I don’t really play on stuff unless I feel I can add to the song and make the song better. I’m not just going to play drums on songs; I want to make sure I’m kind of orchestrating and ideally elevating the song in whatever way possible”.
That was great, because he basically just said “I’m not gonna just do whatever you want; I’m gonna play drums on this the way it needs to be played”. And that’s exactly what he did – and thank God!
So yeah, it was just a matter of asking him – and Bryan, we talked about doing another album together a couple of years ago, when I finished Atomic Mind. So that was just a matter of saying “Hey – are you ready to go, are you free?” And he’s so busy, he’d just moved from Nashville to Los Angeles, so the timing had to work out properly.
It’s weird – I like and also don’t like how I’m making these albums. There’s good and bad to it, of course, as with anything, but I think for the next one I might try something a little different, something a little less transatlantic, so to speak! All over the world.
It always comes down to doing your own thing and trying not to copy anybody. A lot of these guys are the best at what they do – or at least in that echelon. They don’t care how good a musician you are. They have no interest. For example, with Guthrie or Paul Gilbert, those guys can literally play anything you throw at them! So they’re not going to be impressed if you send them demos with crazy stuff and go “Wow! You’re so good,” they’re gonna go “…this is a piece of music I can hear this guy wrote because it had to come out of him, and it’s important to him, and it’s his own thing; I wanna play on it,” that was the thing that helped me hire them! That helped it work out, because any of them could have said nothing, no response from an email, which happens all the time.
So those were the key ingredients, the timing and having contact, but also the most important ingredient: Do they actually hear something in the music that was affecting them? And thankfully, there was something there. So that’s cool.
Going back into that a little bit, what was your exact creative process while you were working with Gavin and Bryan? They were adding to the stuff that was already there, the demos…
Yeah. So when I finish a demo and send it off, there’s never drums on it and there’s never really any bass on it either. I don’t consider myself a bass player, and I certainly don’t consider myself a drummer!
So I add the guitars in their final demo form, and then I send it to whoever is going to play on it, and I say to them…with Gavin it was a bit different, because like I said he was interested in taking a more serious approach to it. Not that people in the past didn’t, of course, but this was a little bit more intense, and he’s a pretty intense guy when it comes to music.
I don’t know how to explain it…he’s very serious about it and very fucking good at it. And that’s the thing. He’s so good, like you forget sometimes there are people at that calibre living, you know? You forget – he’s so good, it’s disgusting!
So we Skyped, and did the record over the course of eight days. He took a song a day, which is crazy. I’ve never seen anybody do that.
Some of them are epic songs as well, some close to ten minutes.
Totally, yeah, they’re longer – but they’re not complicated, they’re just very specific. There were certain things that needed to be addressed in the music.
He’s in the same time zone as you [UK-based], depending on the time of year five or six hours ahead…I would get up around five o’clock in the morning because he had a specific working schedule as well. He does his own thing, and he works with King Crimson, and a few other bands – so he’s got shit to do! So he’d schedule like “I’m gonna start at this time, take a break here, come back in the afternoon and finish whatever song,” so I’d get up around five o’clock in the morning and come into my studio and we’d Skype.
We’d Skype for about an hour, talk about the song, talk about the part, and he…man, there were a few times when he was talking so fuckin’ far over my head that I would just sit there and be like “…sure, yeah, that sounds good…” and I remember just being like “…holy shit, this guy is just so incredible, oh my God…”
What sort of musical details was he going into?
He would reference stuff that he would maybe infuse into the music. He’d talk about accenting…he would just talk, to be honest with you. I don’t know specifics – he would just talk about music and philosophy, and I’d just sit there like “Wow, this guy is fucking incredible,” and just every so often go like “…yeah, okay…” and really I wanted to hear him keep talking! Always nodding in the right direction.
Anyway, every day or so I’d get an email from him with an MP3 with the drums, a rough take, and it was like Christmas every day! And it always feels that way, but with him there was just something about it…it was really an honour. That’s not an opportunity I ever expected to get; I certainly do not take it for granted. So he worked on it, and I sat here and got up at five o’clock and listened to him tell me how awesome a job he was going to do. And he did!
It was painless on my part – I just had to approve. I said a few things, like “…why don’t you change that bit there to do more on the bell,” or “…that fill might have been too much for that part…” and there were a few parts where he just shot me down and it was awesome. I was like “Yeah – for this part, why don’t you do this kind of groove,” and he was like “No. That is a terrible idea. You will regret that in the future,” and I’m like “…oh man”.
It’s funny – I listen back to what he did and I imagine what I wanted, and he was right. This is way better [laughs]!
Sure. It just takes the time to get there…
Yeah – he’s got experience, and he just knows. He’s got that mind for it, you know? He hears something, and it is not even quantifiable. He just knows – like “…how do you know?” He just knows.
It’s similar to how do you describe the colour yellow, you know? You can’t! You just know yellow when you see it. And that’s what he’s got with these parts, and just drumming in general. He just knows.
As you can tell, I’m a huge fan of his! I’m still reeling at the fact that he played on it, and did a great job.
It sounds like a great experience.
Yeah! And Beller – Bryan was easy. He’s the best rock bass player on the planet, so it was just a matter of getting the tracks from him and ”Yeah, that’s good, let’s move on…”
In that instance, was Bryan adding his own contributions too? Was he working with the guitar and drums at that point?
He was the last one to track. Just again because of timing, but I sent him the demos without bass and everything you hear is one hundred percent him. He had absolutely everything.
The other detail on the record is the piano. I had demoed everything with my piano playing, and I’m definitely not an accomplished pianist by any stretch of the imagination. I can get by, and I wrote a lot of the music [for Remarkably Human] on the piano. I demoed it out and had it functional.
Then I had a friend of mine from the UK named Luke Martin, who’s this great player, he’s got this cool outlook. He’s not quite a jazz player, he’s not a classical player, he’s just this modern…I don’t even know what to call him, he’s just a cool player. So he took the songs and my parts and just made them way better [laughs]! And there’re some moments on the album that I think are really special because of his contribution – not because of my writing, but because of how he decided to go about embellishing them or his approach or arrangement of the ideas.
So this was very much a collaborative effort in every respect. In fact, the easiest thing on this album was recording guitars; that was nothing. It was just waiting to see what everyone else was going to do – that was the hardest thing on my end.
Remarkably Human comes across as very cinematic; is there an underlying theme or storyline that links all the tracks together?
That’s a good question – I’ve been asked that by a couple of other people, and of course I could sit here and lie and give you this grand story and try to be a proghead and do that. But the reality is, this music was written over the course of a year and it kind of just came out that way in its own time.
But I will say, the album title Remarkably Human and a few of the tracks kind of relate to me as a 29-year-old. So Remarkably Human – that’s got two meanings to me.
One, Remarkably Human is the guitar. The guitar is very much a human being; you can bring any emotion out of it, it can sound like anything, you can do anything with it from a musical standpoint. It’s just a very tactile, human instrument. Your personality can be infused into it, and so on. Interpret that how you like.
The other thing is that I’m getting a little bit older and I’ve been going through some health issues. So as I get a little bit older I start to feel more mortal, so to speak. More human. Which also is that thing where you’re like “…man, this is a very remarkably human situation”.
So that’s kind of the idea – and then there’s some narration on the first and last tracks, from an old fifties sci-fi broadcast show called 2000 Plus. Myself and the co-producer, Scott Giffin, found this incredible dialogue that was…I wanted the first song to feel like you mentioned in the review, that it’s this uncharted territory. And the last song has this very dreamlike quality, this coma-esque you’re kind of functioning but you’re not quality to it…so if you listen to the dialogue, this woman starts off talking about this nightmare. This monster she saw. And in the last song, you listen to these two guys speaking about this guy who’s in a coma – and the very last line is the name of the song.
The guy says “I’m afraid this is just the erratic talk of a sick and injured brain,” which means this entire record could have been a dream, this guy was dreaming the whole time, and everything he heard was either a nightmare or just this dream he had. Which is interesting because sometimes I’ll wake up in the morning and, it’s a human thing to happen, you wake up in the morning and maybe had a dream where something was slightly better or slightly less complicated than in real life, and you wake up and you’re like “…oh yeah, that’s still a problem I’m facing”.
There’s something really heartbreaking and sad about that, and I wanted to bring that across in that song. Just again, that remarkably human thing.
So it’s not a concept record; if there was a concept, it’s just that all this music fits in the same universe. There’s no story, just all shit that I’ve been, as I’m getting older, just feeling. Again, I don’t know if anyone’s going to like this stuff; there’s not a lot of fast-paced music on Remarkably Human, not a lot of crazy parts. The guitar solos are some of the most intelligent that I’ve recorded, I think, but…it’s just that the music had to come out this year from me.
There’s a couple of songs on there that were written for a reason. There’s one called Weakened By Winter – and the flow of that song, it starts off more of a ballad-esque thing and slowly builds. It comes to this section in the middle where it’s very intense and builds and builds until this melody becomes the focal point. And then it comes back to the original part with a little more intensity. That, to me, is being a Canadian going through a Canadian winter and how you feel at the very end of it, like “Oh my God, it’s over, that was so intense,” and you’ve got to recover from it, so to speak.
Is that similar to a Seasonal Affective Disorder sort of thing?
I’ve met people with that, and I’ve seen the effect it has on them, and it’s really quite horrible. I had some students I was teaching at a guitar store, and they had to quit lessons during the winter because of how depressed they were and how withdrawn they became. It could be that – I’ve never experienced it, but I’m saying literally when all that snow melts and you can go outside and breathe in the oxygen because it won’t freeze your lungs, you know?
And Remarkably Human the song I look at as such a struggle between light and dark. The song starts off very sombre, you don’t know where it’s going, if it’s evil or a passion thing, and then that second melody, the chorus melody, comes in where it goes to the E Major chord and becomes more of a classical triumphant kind of thing. The verse comes back, and it breaks down, turns into this riff – it’s just a constant push and pull.
That again is the human condition, to me.
What advice would you offer to up-and-coming guitarists? You’ve done quite a few albums, worked with all these people, you have a signature guitar; what would you say to people just starting out and trying to work out what their path should be?
I always struggle with that question. I don’t ever remember asking that question to anybody. I can only speak from experience, but it all comes down to don’t worry – just play.
Just play your guitar. Just get to know your guitar better. Get to a point where you’re happy with what you’re doing, and try to enjoy being around music.
It depends, too – do you want a career? What’s your goal? What are you trying to do as a musician? Are you trying to form a band, do the instrumental thing? Do you want to be a virtuoso player? You know what I mean?
There’s so many variables, but I would say just play. Find time to play, and enjoy it. Because any plan or goal you have…nothing goes according to plan. It’s going to evolve in the weirdest way you could ever imagine, but if you play a lot and follow your heart musically, what you’re hearing in your head, it all kind of works out on some level.
For me, I just loved playing so much that I just played until opportunities started to knock. Of course, that doesn’t always work out for people, but you can’t get mad at that. You just play and see what happens.
So that’s my advice. Just enjoy playing guitar – because it’s difficult. It’s a very hard instrument, and some days I freaking hate it, but I can’t not do it now. I play because I play. It’s like breathing, you know?
So at this point, even when you’re hitting those walls and getting frustrated with something, the fact that you’ve got that ingrained into your lifestyle gets you through it.
Totally! It’s funny too, the busier you get…like why? Why did you start playing the guitar? Well, I played guitar because I thought it looked awesome and my neighbour played and it was wonderful!
Then you get better and better and better and you keep playing and you keep playing and you keep playing, and all of a sudden you start getting a little busier. You start to realise that when you get busier and opportunities start coming in, with less time to play…it’s shitty because all those opportunities came because you kept playing but now because of the opportunities you’re not playing! It kind of takes a 180 twist on itself.
So just the idea of loving music, that has to sustain you through so much of the other crap. I think it’s just a matter of loving music and playing a lot.
And just understand there’s no shortcut. I get emails all the time asking “What’s the secret? What’s the secret? You’re not telling me the secret, I need to know the secret, why can’t you let me know what the secret is?”
There’s no fucking secret. The secret is play! Play your guitar, and enjoy playing it! That’s it! I’ve been playing half my life and I’m still from day to day a [struggling] guitar player. It is what it is.
There you go!
Cool! Final question: Beyond the new album, Remarkably Human, what do you have planned for the rest of the year?
Good question! The rest of the year, the next year and a half is pretty rammed at this point.
This month, I’m leaving to do this week-long guitar camp in Toronto with a couple other cool musicians. I think Jennifer Batten’s coming in to play too – should be fun. Then I go out to Calgary with these guys, Grant Cooper and Scott Giffin, who run a company called Thinline Films. They did a documentary on me [viewable below] and we’re going to shoot videos for the whole album. That’s pretty cool.
Then I get back, and there’s a Canadian clinic tour across Canada, then I go back to China and Thailand for some touring, and I’m actually gonna be in the UK for a whole month. Touring the entire country, with a band, so that should be pretty cool…
With a band?
Yeah, doing not just clinics, but a full band tour.
Who will you have coming with you for that?
Some session guys in the UK. It’ll be some guys I’ve worked with over there before.
I’ve also got two guitars coming out with Schecter. I can’t give too much info on that, but the silver guitar did really well and they want to keep pushing it forward. So we’re going to be doing some more stuff.
And more touring! Some of them aren’t 100% confirmed, but I’ve got more touring. It’s going to be a very busy next two years! Thankfully, I love doing that stuff.
With this record, I’ve been doing so many of these clinic tours, I’ve basically travelled the entire planet at this point. And that’s fantastic, but I wanna get back to doing the full band thing and having people experience the music in its intended form rather than just a backing track.
So it’s all good! But the point is I’m going to be doing a lot of playing, so it’ll be a good time!
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Check out my full review of Remarkably Human here.